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Forum Home > The Walking Dead TV discussuion > Jon Bernthal never saw Shane as a villian

chase
Member
Posts: 116

I never thought Shane as a villian, either. In the tv series, and in the comic. Shane fell in love w/ the wrong woman and made bad choices. There's a lot of people that's done that, me included. I think in the tv series, lori's a bigger bad guy than Shane. And, I really don't see Lori as a villian, either. Sure, i can't stand her on the tv show, i think she's a filthy hoe-bag, the sooner she dies the better. but, not a antoganist.. Shane did have a solid point on the tv show when he was about to fight rick, 'they got over you once, they'll do it again.' He wanted/needed someone, and lori certainly didn't make it easy for him. anywayz;

Do ya'll think of Shane as a villian?

August 16, 2012 at 5:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

ZombieHero
Moderator
Posts: 1761

In the literal sense, Shane was not a villain. However, Shane’s character was the antagonist to Rick’s protagonist. So technically he was the villain of season 2. He did go out of his way to undermine Rick and constantly tell the group how things should be. He was sniffing around Rick’s wife, he killed an innocent man under the pretense of “survival”, and he killed their hostage by breaking his neck. He even contemplated shooting Rick back in the woods.

 

In the beginning Shane was a good guy, but once the world came to an end Shane was unable to adapt. He was constantly panicked under pressure, forgetting years of police training (shooting behind you as you run is by far the dumbest thing you can do), and then trying to murder a friend. I know many Shane fans out there hate to see that his character had gone off the deep end, but he really did lose control and in the end deserved what he got. In the end if Shane were to remain the leader, the entire group would have split and died a few weeks later. Do I see him as a villain? Yes, but only as an antagonist not as a villain in a diabolical sort of way.

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I'm a Detective for lost souls, I'm the hero for the damned, I am Zombie Hero

August 16, 2012 at 5:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

chase
Member
Posts: 116

Touche' .. I guess i kinda forgot about the whole Otis thing. When he shaved his head was kind of a symbolic transition from supporting cast to antogonast.

As far as lori is concerned, she's about to have shane's baby. She didn't seem too upset when he was plowing her in the dirt. I certainly don't blame the guy for being confused about that..

IDK, i liked 'deep-end' shane. Dude kicked ass, sure he killed a few innocent people. But, other than that. He's cool w/ me. :)

August 17, 2012 at 12:57 PM Flag Quote & Reply

The Euge
Moderator
Posts: 96

Shane was a definite antagonist, but I don't think you could label him a simple "villain" for the reasons ZH described. In addition to being the human antagonist for Rick in Season 2, he also served as the counter-point to Rick's decisions. Sometimes Rick seemed to have the correct ideas/plans and sometimes Shane did. Shane definitely made some evil decisions like getting close to sexually assaulting Lori at the end of season 1, killing Otis to save himself and Carl in season 2, deliberately setting things up to be a showdown with Rick at the end of Season 2, etc. It led to some good drama.


Lori is more complex than people are giving her credit for. I think a lot of this has to do with differences between how men and women are viewed with bad decisions in the area of sex. Lori thought Rick was dead. This was largely because Shane led her to believe that there was no way he could have surived the horrors of the hospital. Lori is a vulnerable character and sought emotional safety with a fellow survivor. Her "bitchy" attitude and actions are the only ways she knows how to survive and a truly fucked up world - she's not a leader, she's not a fighter and she isn't especially skilled in any craft other than what moms do. That doesn't make her decisions right and I don't really like her much either, but it also doesn't necessarily make her a "filthy ho-bag." It is what it is.

August 17, 2012 at 1:15 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Nina
Moderator
Posts: 612

Agreeing with ZOMBIEHERO, Shane also constantly tried to break the rules of HERSHEL's farm (carrying weapons and killing the zombies Hershel was trying to protect).  Besides LORI, he also took a booty call to Andrea.  If he cared that much about LORI, he wouldn't have given in to Andrea.  So, lets say Lori and Shane kept their relationship secret and the group did last far longer than expected...and if Andrea did try some movies on Andrea while he was involved with Lori...would he have given in?  Would he secretly balance Lori and Andrea?

 

I personally consider him a sleeze ball.  He seemed to do more to protect himself and look out for himself than the benefit of the group.  Rick always has the group (and his family) in mind with his decisions.  I think Rick even said that to Lori Season 2 Episode 13, that he tried to give Shane every chance (forgive and forgive and forgive), but shane just kept pushing and pushing and pushing, so Rick had to make a decision. 

 

IF shane was truly that "bad ass", he wouldn't have given Rick a fighting chance, just would have killed him.  But (as ALL antagonists do), he started monologging and eventually died...twice in this case.

 

Lori and rick were apparently already on rocky grounds. There was a scene in Season 2 (was it season 2?) when Shane goes to tell Lori what happened to Rick while Lori is waiting for Carl to finish school, and Lori is venting to a friend about a fight he and Rick got into (Rick was also venting to Shane in season 1 episode 1, in the car before everything happened).  SO...there's a chance Shane already had a heads up that things weren't the best between then and knew he could jump at it.  I can respect Shane for keeping an organized group organized and survive..but Shane wasn't the kind of guy who was willing to take risks to save someone else. 

 

Shane wouldn't go back to save the group in Atlanta, despite Amy's objection to go rescue them when they were stuck in the department store.  He wouldn't let anyone leave the camp, and if they did go..."they knew the risks".

 

Where as RICK went way out of his way all the time to save people and rescue people (went back for Merele even though everyone said it was a bad idea, he went back for GLENN when the gang stole him, he "saved" Randall in season 2, he saved Hershel, even though he could have left  Hearshel to fight off the zombies and run out of ammo (or get taken from behind). 

 

One of potential many aguments which could be made.  Bottom line, RICK is looking out for everyone, and Shane is looking out for himself.

 

A "VILLIAN"...no.  He's not like what we expect from the governor, a mean dude who's actually intenting on badness.  Shane still contrubited and helped out.  He may not have been a bad guy...just made some pretty dang bad decisions.

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When in a highly public place, I often [secretly] observe my sorroundings and the people around me and ask myself, "If 99% of the people around me were zombies...and I had but seconds to respond, what would my plan be?" ~ Nina, Zombie enthusiast


August 17, 2012 at 4:02 PM Flag Quote & Reply

mikeislegend
Member
Posts: 199

well said everyone!

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August 18, 2012 at 12:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply

redhollywood
Member
Posts: 3663
Fuck Shane yo
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I am the bee's knees. I vomit greatness and shit glory. Jesus got nothing on me.

August 19, 2012 at 8:39 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Jimmy Blue Eyes
Moderator
Posts: 1153
zombiehero, and nina, well said! it feels like us mods are becoming more like an experts panel, lmao.
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I used to be lost in the shuffle...now I shuffle along with the lost.

August 19, 2012 at 12:35 PM Flag Quote & Reply

ZombieHero
Moderator
Posts: 1761
We should get a show like "Around the Horn" on ESPN for here and lets us all debate. Red- I believe both Lori and Andrea did that already
--

I'm a Detective for lost souls, I'm the hero for the damned, I am Zombie Hero

August 19, 2012 at 3:30 PM Flag Quote & Reply

redhollywood
Member
Posts: 3663
BURN!!!!
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I am the bee's knees. I vomit greatness and shit glory. Jesus got nothing on me.

August 19, 2012 at 4:48 PM Flag Quote & Reply

chase
Member
Posts: 116

Hmm. Very interesting points.. i'm sticking w/ lori=hoebag. What? She couldn't wait two weeks, or however long it was?  Have a little respect for you're dead husband, don't bang his best friend. Lori deserves her fair share of 'shane over the deep-end' blame.

Agreed Shane=sleeze ball. He shouldn't have hooked up w/ lori in the first place. I know if it was me, no matter the situation, i wouldn't do that. Bff's 'other' is off limits. z apocalypse and all.. But, he did and would make sacrifices for lori and carl.  (Well, he did and would sacrifice otis for carl.) & i really don't believe he risked himself just for the nookie. Pull lori and carl into the 'in it for himself' umbrella, and i'll agree w/ that.

My problem w/ Rick was he was always pussyfooting around, trying to make everyone happy. Shane just didn't give a f*. He did what was 'right' no matter what anyone else felt about it. That i liked. I wouldn't have put up w/ Hershels crap.

Recap: True or False.

Lori is a hoebag = T

Shane is a sleezeball = T

Lori and Shane are 'bad guys' = F

Mod's know it all  = False! :)

Mod's think they know it all = True! :)

j/k. thanks 4 replying. i love those type of responces. Makes me think from a different perspective.

 

August 20, 2012 at 4:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply

iWesley
Member
Posts: 3738

shane was the best

August 25, 2012 at 9:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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