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Nina
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Posts: 612

lil notes;

 

Well...that was the weirdest intro to date.  What is Phillip (I mean BRIAN) planning?  What's wrong with him?

 

ANDREA is FINALLY cathing on!

 

When is the Governor gonna grow the handlebar mustache?  Looks like his peach fuzz is blonde anyway, so it wont grow too well anyway.

 

Glad MILTON is finally starting to stand up to the governor.

 

The more I see this the governor try and be evil..the more it seems forced.  He's starting to bug me.  He's not a good villian

 

Andrea shouldn't have hesitated for the second time in shooting Mr. Blake

 

About time we see TYREESE!

 

Andrea...rather then standing in front of Tyreese and saying you're leaving...just leave!

 

Phillip...yer a liar and a jerk.

 

I have a hard time accepting Andrea could run/jog that whole time.

 

Dude...lil white guy against big black guy...back away lil white guy.

 

Martinez; "Yo...I said 5...let's go".  Well Matrinez...we've only been chatting less than two and a half minutes...

 

Andrea would be SO out of breath way down that road. She should have travelled through the forest to begin with. 

 

K...so andrea heads into the forest and leans against a tree...then a walker grabs her while more start appearing head for the tree.  You'd think on her way into the forest, up the lil hill...she would have SEEN them.  They weren't more than a couple yards away.  "Hey look...there's a tree I can hide behind....and a few walkers near by.  Lets stay put.

 

White boy fightin' a big black guy...who's gonna win.

 

So...andrea is out of breath, in a big field (NO visible walkers anywhere).  Truck goes by, andrea drops...in traditional WALKING DEAD style...she SHOULD be attacked by a small walker army who appears out no where.  She doesn't run very well, and she wont out run a truck.  Phillip....you chased your girlfriend away.  This game of cat and mouse is starting to get old.  Andrea runs into an abandonned building while the Governor looks for her.  This is like a bad 80's horror movie.

 

Andrea is attacked by a walker.  You'd think her senses would be heightened enough she would have seen it coming.  How are walkers getting into old abandonned buildings?  What are they eating in there?

 

This episode is trying WAY WAY too hard to make Phillip look evil.

 

Andrea seems cornered...but then WAIT...EXCELLENT plan by Andrea to open the door filled with walkers in a stair well and hide behind the door.  That's anrea saying, "Phillip...we're done!"

 

Although, I don't think that's going to be the end of Phillip, even though the sounds he's making are pretty rough.  I'm still hoping for the infamous line; "KILL THEM ALL!"  At least now he'll have a reason to be really angry.  The woman he manipulated tried to kill him...three times.


 

Andrea gets out.  she should find his truck and take it back to the prison.

 

I'm guessing ANDREA burned the bodies...'cause I don't think Tyreese has the balls yet.  But then...maybe she ran out of gas...'cause she's still walking.  So maybe MILTON or Tyreese did it?!?!?

 

Andrea almost gets RICK's attention, but barely misses it...and he's all like, "I JUST stopped seeing things..did I just see something?"

 

AND DUDE...that pile up of burned bodies which are still "alive".  that was gorss!!

 

And now ANDREA is tied up in the chair.  You tellin' me, the governor somehow got her to not say a word, not scream while he dragged her out of the bush and back to his truck?  She was EASILY within screaming distance.  She could have EASILY faught back, bit his hand or something and screamed, got RICK's attention.  WEAK!

 


--


When in a highly public place, I often [secretly] observe my sorroundings and the people around me and ask myself, "If 99% of the people around me were zombies...and I had but seconds to respond, what would my plan be?" ~ Nina, Zombie enthusiast


March 18, 2013 at 5:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

kxcd
Member
Posts: 3

I'm thinking it was Milton that burned the walkers.

The Governor was told and thinks it was Tyreese, then asks him "Where did you find the gas?" Tyreese says "Come again?". I think at that point the Governor  sees that Tyreese maybe wasn't the one.

Then he talks to Milton, who knows about the burning of the walkers already. Being a smart ass, Milton says "I hope you catch who did it..." I think then the Governor realizes it was Milton...

March 18, 2013 at 10:55 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Carl Grimes
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Posts: 1784

Yeah Im pretty sure it was Milton,that dudes time is up which is a shame as i like him

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Xbox One Tag: ChokingVictim87



March 18, 2013 at 11:33 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Dane13
Member
Posts: 96

I think I read somewhere that the guy who plays Milton is signed on to another show, so it's likely that he'll die by the end of the season, but does anyone think there's a chance of him defecting to Rick's group and becoming the Eugene of the tv show?

March 18, 2013 at 2:57 PM Flag Quote & Reply

ZombieHero
Moderator
Posts: 1761

In all honesty, this episode has been the weaker of the second half of season three. I've personally felt the Woodburry storyline has been boring. The portrayal of the Governor has been flat, he started off evil and twisted and has just gone in one direction with it. His arc has only made him to be over the top evil. An interesting character needs paradox. With his insanity there should be redeeming qualities. I get that his zombies daughter’s death made him hate Michonne, but what drives this guy to act the way he does? He was evil from the start; we need to see him become evil. They failed to display that the town is actually afraid except for minimal moments and except from one episode we haven't seen the Governor struggle with being a leader.

 

 

A lot of this episode reeked of coincidence and while coincidence is sometimes needed for story it needs to be less obvious. It was just a poorly crafted episode. The Andrea and Governor chase was full of coincidence and cheesy stale horror stereotypes. I’m just glad the Andrea and Governor romance storyline is finally over. Talk about murdering characterization.

 

 

The burning pit of zombies could be an interesting twist, but only if Milton didn’t actually do it. What should happen is that Ben, Sasha, or even Martinez did it and we are meant to think that Milton did it. Perhaps Martinez wants Milton out of the picture so he can be the Governor’s second? That would be interesting. Have Ben burn the pit in hopes of Tyresse being takeout by the Governor, would be unexpected. What if the Governor himself did it so he could blame Milton and not be judged by his people when he kills Milton for treason? If Milton did it, not only will we all have seen it coming we will be bored with it. However, going with past story designs, my guess is they had Milton do it.

 

--

I'm a Detective for lost souls, I'm the hero for the damned, I am Zombie Hero

March 18, 2013 at 4:59 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tym
Member
Posts: 269

I thought it was ok. Not particularly good, but not especially terrible. Not as bad as the episode where Andrea visited the prison, IMHO.


The Gov finally gets as evil as he is in the comics (saw a speculum among the torture instruments :o ); his mask is starting to crack, and people are noticing. I enjoyed the predator/prey part of the episode with the Gov and Andrea, though it was very stereotypical; I also enjoy '80's slasher flicks, so that probably has something to do with it. Don't know why Andrea didn't jack his truck when she escaped through the back door though - at least check to see if he left the keys. Maybe they wanted her to and it got cut from the episode, but it seemed like a "hey, dummy" moment to me. Thought they were way too obvious with the two 'surprise' moments Andrea had - saw the zombie grabbing her through the tree coming a mile away, as well as the Gov grabbing her at the prison. They could have done a better job with that, I think - at least not put 2 'unsurprising surprise' moments like that so close together.


I suppose they could bait and switch yoink us with who burned the zombies by revealing the culprit as someone less obvious, but it seems pretty clear to me that it was Milton. He knew they were burned before he should have, and his tone during that conversation was very telling. He's a terrible liar. It seems clear that he is against the slaughter of the Prison folks; burning the zombies was both a way for him to take *some* kind of action against the Gov's plans, and for him to save the Prison folks from a particularly gruesome way of dying. I still think they're setting up Milton to be the eventual triggerman who puts down the Gov.


I thought for sure they were going to wrap up the prison arc this season, but after this episode I'm not so sure. Starting to suspect the main battle will begin right before the credits run on season 3. I'm starting to agree with people who are wanting the Woodbury thing to be over...


March 18, 2013 at 5:36 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tym
Member
Posts: 269

I think Andrea's ticket was punched with the Gov back when she defied him by going to the prison the first time. He told her this episode that he wanted her to be there with him when they meet back up with the prison group. He knows she's against any double crossing stuff, which he's going to do, so it seemed obvious that he wanted her there so he could kill her at the same time.


I don't think her running off again or opening the door to let the zombies flood out of the stairwell changed anything. She was gonna get it even before that.

March 18, 2013 at 5:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

SIMPLETON
Member
Posts: 43

I really enjoyed the discussion the Governor had with Rick in last week's episode.  It identified how damaged the Governor is. In a way I felt like he knew that he has grown into a psychopath but doesn't mind it.  That talk gave a lot of depth to this character, and made him seem even more menacing.  Not the wrathful psychopath that we know from the comics, but still an interesting villian.  And then this episode destroyed that entire feeling I had about him in 40 minutes.  I agree with Nina that the evilness of the character is forced.  There were too many horror cliches in this epsiode.


Things I liked: Milton standing up to the Governor, Tyreese giving a taste of what he is capable of, Sasha telling Andrea "You're suppose to be a good shot.", and the burned zombie meat ball.

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March 18, 2013 at 6:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

monsterchief117
Member
Posts: 82

I thought it was aight. I thought the Governor acting like a serial killer with a shovel was kinda goofy. Andrea was great in some parts but bad in other parts. Milton is a great character in my opinion. Not a fighter but a relatable person. I actually liked that people didn't talk much this episode, it would have been unnecessary. Great Tyreese, Sasha, and Allen episode. Allen may be an asshole but putting myself in his shoes, I would be too for a while I think. I seriously hope we see the prison next season, I still believe it's too soon to end the prison arc. I don't even want the show catching up to the comics.

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fuck fucking fuckity fuck

March 18, 2013 at 7:01 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tym
Member
Posts: 269

ZombieHero: "The portrayal of the Governor has been flat, he started off evil and twisted and has just gone in one direction with it. His arc has only made him to be over the top evil. An interesting character needs paradox. With his insanity there should be redeeming qualities. I get that his zombies daughter’s death made him hate Michonne, but what drives this guy to act the way he does? He was evil from the start; we need to see him become evil. They failed to display that the town is actually afraid except for minimal moments and except from one episode we haven't seen the Governor struggle with being a leader."


I'm curious about your thoughts on this. Do you think his comic counterpart was more successful in these regards? 


March 18, 2013 at 7:04 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Gnarlbob
Member
Posts: 3

My favorite episode...because I was in it!!!! hehe.

--

Zombie on TWD

March 18, 2013 at 7:28 PM Flag Quote & Reply

SIEKONE
Site Owner
Posts: 2602

Gnarlbob is a great name! Congrats on getting on a episode!

--


March 18, 2013 at 7:35 PM Flag Quote & Reply

ZombieHero
Moderator
Posts: 1761
@ Tym Comic books flow different with storytelling. Comics have to keep the viewer interested visually, but more importantly its story is told through dialogue. We accept more "fantastic" aspects of characters like the Governor. Since he was limited to certain issues, we weren't looking for multi dimensional antagonist. Being mentally unstable was enough. It would have taken to long for Kirkman to portray a deep villain. With Television, there is a level of expectation already in the viewers mindset about how a character should be portrayed and grow. Everything has to be shown to us through action. We don't want massive dialogue that takes twenty minutes. Don't get me wrong, some of the Governors actions did a spectacular job of showing is evil and insane side. However, the antagonist should be the protagonists mirror. Each should bring out a positive and negative action. Just like in scene structure, if you start off negative and become negative you've done nothing to grow. You've made a flat moment. His character has no roundness.
--

I'm a Detective for lost souls, I'm the hero for the damned, I am Zombie Hero

March 18, 2013 at 9:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Nina
Moderator
Posts: 612

Gnarlbob


Which one were you?  What was your scene?

 

What can you tell us about your experience?

--


When in a highly public place, I often [secretly] observe my sorroundings and the people around me and ask myself, "If 99% of the people around me were zombies...and I had but seconds to respond, what would my plan be?" ~ Nina, Zombie enthusiast


March 18, 2013 at 9:49 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Cotton Hill
Member
Posts: 37

Nothing happened this episode. It centered on two characters that I think are poorly written and I don't care if they live or die. The end of the episode the only new element is the governor trusts mitlon slightly less. I don't think he trusted him very much before.

Some decent action, as always great makeup and effects, tyreese got to say a few words, some pretty good tension. I liked the scene where Andrea was in the field and the truck comes up over the hill.

Oh cool a Rick cameo appearance! Haw haw silly Rick your probably just seeing your dead ass wife again you should probably just ignore that.

The Governor started out seeming like a decent guy (I am a comic reader so I knew he was going to be a bad guy) Immediatly after they let you see the governor being an alright guy they show him kill the national guard guys for no reason. Next you see the governor being nice and sweet to andrea, then he tries to kill Michonne for no real reason, then you see the fishtanks and penny. You hear some sympathetic background about how the governor is a good guy and he believes there could still be some part of the person in the zombie and he is a hero that saved teh lives of many of the woodbury residents. Then he gets a little pervy with maggie and threatens glenn.

There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to the shit he is doing before penny Z gets killed. It is like the writers are arguing over what he should do. The governor is kind of looking like a good guy right now lets throw a scene of him doing something really bad in to even shit out.

Some really great stuff has happened in season 3, it has redeemed alot of the bullshit from S2 but they really screwed up the governor plot.


NINA I think the novels are cannon with the Comics and not the show. Early on in S3 you see a family photo of the governor, his wife and Penny doesn't seem like the kind of picture he would be in unless he has an identical twin brother. Also Milton says he knew Philip before all this happened in the show.


March 19, 2013 at 3:03 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tym
Member
Posts: 269

@ Cotton Hill - I think there is rhyme and reason to the Governor's actions. I think his primary motivation is power, control, and Penny. He gets off on ruling Woodbury, and has a deep seeded need to control his surroundings. He also wants his daughter back because she's the only person who is truly important to him.


The differences in the way the Gov acted at the different times you mention were him shifting between putting on a front to deceive people and him being his true self, but everything he does is to maintain power and control and get his daughter back. He starts off seeming decent to fool the viewers in the same way he's fooled the average citizens of Woodbury.

He kills the guard both to steal their supplies and to remove any potential threats to his power; he doesn't feel like he can control a reasonably large group of battle trained men who undoubtably have their own internal alliances which may threaten his power in Woodbury, and he wants their gear, so he kills them.

He's nice to Andrea and Michonne at first because they're two women he can add to his town (being the less threatening sex, in less threatening numbers, and potential breeding sources for the next generation of Woodbury).

He tries to kill Michonne because she tried to leave Woodbury, and he doesn't let allow anyone to leave; if she leaves, she's outside his range of control.

You see the fishtanks and Penny Z to further reveal his crazy to viewers - showing us deeper layers of his sickness with the fishtanks, and deeper layers of his motivation with Penny Z.

You hear some stuff about how he's a good guy because that's the mask he wears around everyone. If he's obvious about his true nature, people will be less likely to follow him and more likely to rebel against him.

He thinks there could still be part of a person inside the zombie because that's the hope he clings to for Penny, but he doesn't treat any other zombies like there's anything worthwhile inside of them (notice nobody else in the town gets to keep any zombified family members, and he keeps Penny secret from everyone) - like living people, they're merely tools to advance his power (exploiting them in warfare and for entertainment).

He saved the lives of Woodbury residents because without them, he's nothing and has no power.

He gets on Glenn and Maggie because he knows they're part of a group operating in his area, outside his control, and he wants to find them and remove the threat to his power.

He accepts Tyreese and company into Woodbury because they're not particularly threatening (smaller numbers, not military trained) and because he's mobilizing for war and needs more bodies. I suspect even if they weren't mobilizing for war he still might have accepted them in, because there's no obvious leader in their group who might try to compete with him in Woodbury, and to replace the bodies lost in the attack by the prison group.

He is willing to 'fight to the last man' against Rick, though it threatens his power (no people, no power), because Michonne killed Penny - and she was the only thing in the world that could compete with his motivations of power and control. The lust for power and control are part of his nature; they're probably less conscious and more impulsive in origin. His desire to get his daughter back was very conscious, very much at the front of his mind, and now that's been taken away from him he's overwhelmed by the desire to extract revenge at any cost.


In my mind, everything he does seems consistent with his character to me.

March 20, 2013 at 1:02 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Tym
Member
Posts: 269

ZombieHero at March 18, 2013 at 9:22 PM

@ Tym Comic books flow different with storytelling. Comics have to keep the viewer interested visually, but more importantly its story is told through dialogue. We accept more "fantastic" aspects of characters like the Governor. Since he was limited to certain issues, we weren't looking for multi dimensional antagonist. Being mentally unstable was enough. It would have taken to long for Kirkman to portray a deep villain. With Television, there is a level of expectation already in the viewers mindset about how a character should be portrayed and grow. Everything has to be shown to us through action. We don't want massive dialogue that takes twenty minutes. Don't get me wrong, some of the Governors actions did a spectacular job of showing is evil and insane side. However, the antagonist should be the protagonists mirror. Each should bring out a positive and negative action. Just like in scene structure, if you start off negative and become negative you've done nothing to grow. You've made a flat moment. His character has no roundness.

I see what you're saying; fair enough.


I felt like the TV version has done a better job at fleshing him out and showing us layers of his character, particularly through little things like the family photo, his journal, and his comment to Rick at the table where he mentioned his former boss - where as he was extremely one note in the comics. On TV, there have been moments where someone not familiar with him from the comics would genuinely wonder whether he was a good guy or a bad guy - but in the comics, the mystery lasted all of half an issue.


I was feeling like the comic spent more time with him (20+ issues dealing with the prison arc, IIRC - and figuring one issue roughly translates into one episode) where they could have explored his character at a deeper level - but then I remembered much of that was with the prisoners and not with Woodbury. I guess the comics have the novel series to do that though - haven't read any of that, but figure each book could probably be a season of show in itself. I do wish the show would have done some flashbacks with the Gov, to explore him further (particularly in his life before the apocalypse, and perhaps some early Woodbury) - there's surely been some stuff that could have been cut this season to have made room for that. If they drag out the prison/Woodbury thing to season 4, then they definitely should have done some of that this season.

March 20, 2013 at 1:25 PM Flag Quote & Reply

ZombieHero
Moderator
Posts: 1761
My main issue is that they characterized him as a twisted man with little humanity and had him become a twisted man with no humanity. He didn't grow. Yes, we saw little moments here and there, but as others have said, his actions seemed forced. If say he started out twisted, but he did it because he really cared about his people and wanted to protect them. Then over a period of episodes we saw that he was enjoying being evil more and more and cared less about his people, we could see growth. Instead he's never really seemed to care about his people. It just feels like the writers were in such a hurry to get the Governor on screen, that when they got there they didn't really have a fully fleshed out plan
--

I'm a Detective for lost souls, I'm the hero for the damned, I am Zombie Hero

March 20, 2013 at 7:06 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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